Grayson: Hello, and welcome to Gays Making. I am Grayson Hay, and we are here to talk about art. Today I have a wonderful artist that I've known for a little while now. His name is Duncan Menzies and he is a very well-rounded artist. We met during a play and I am super excited to be able to sit here and talk to him about his art projects and kind of what he's been doing during COVID so welcome Duncan. How's it going?

Duncan: Hey. Thanks for having me. I feel honored to be on the podcast.

Grayson: Awesome. Yeah. So I like to usually start off the episodes with just having you talk about you as an artist. Like what kind of what motivates you and. For the things that you're creating currently. So like, what are your motivations for your projects? And then that we'll move on into actually talking about the projects.

Duncan: Cool. Well, I would say that like over the past year how, what inspires me or what I can do is completely changed. And I think in a lot of ways, all for the better, I think that for me personally, COVID was a blessing in disguise in disguise. I was living in Seattle before that and. As you said, like we were trying to show like probably four months before everything went down. And so I had a different trajectory, like I was gonna travel more for work. And do that. Performance stuff and I do modeling. And so those are all on the side. And so when everything shut down, those things weren't going to happen anymore. So it forced me to really evaluate what do I really want to do? Not just, what do I want to like, put on my resume, like whatever cool accolades or fun projects to do or things that pay. And that was like most of the projects in Seattle. So it forced me to be like, if I have unlimited time, And a fair amount of resources. Like what kind of art would I produce? And so answering those questions kind of changed, figuring out what I really wanna do kinda narrowed that down to doing doing devised cabarets and make an art out of bedsheets to things that I didn't imagine. Felt

Grayson: well, let's let's actually dig into the bedsheet Chronicles. This was, I think I contributed to it. Like I, I want to say it was like weeks before COVID shut down, I think. Cause we went to, we went to that dance show.

Duncan: Yes. So good.

Grayson: yeah

Duncan: And that, and that Thai place type place.

Grayson: Yeah, I don't remember. It was like I think it was yeah. Thai vegan place. And yeah, I, I gave you a bedsheet to contribute to your to your bed sheet Chronicles. So why don't you give us a little kind of brief synopsis of what that is. And we'll just go from there.

Duncan: Great. Cool. Yeah. The bedsheet Chronicle started in the summer of 2019 when I. Was living in Seattle. And I'm sure if anyone who listens to this is from Seattle, then they know what the Seattle freezes are, how people moving into the city finding heart, finding it hard to make those more long-term connections. And I think kind of in this area, I like performing arts, like you're, you see soup, see people almost every day for about two or three months. And then, and then you just, you know, move on, which is like the natural progression, which I totally get. And a much I kind of like but I wanted to create more meaningful relationships. And so I think one way to do that is asking. Deep questions to people and having an excuse to do that. And I can remember times in my life when I was growing up, where if I had a, like a romantic relationship or a mentor that I really respected or just a friendship, like it inspired me. To create something either for them or to memorialize that relationship when I was younger. And I realized that I just don't, I just don't do that as they get older. Like you meet so many people, you have so many great connections. It's hard to like slow down and create something from that. So that's a little bit. How this started. So what it is is I meet with someone and I pose the question, what do you cover in life? And then they give me a bed sheet. And I feel like the bedsheets a symbol for a lot of things, like what, what we cover up. And the bed is a symbol of where we go to rest. Like it's a very vulnerable space where we go for intimacy, all these things. So I feel like making that. The main part of the art project, I think is lots of things to work with. And it's been a real blessing to sit down. It's amazing how, when you sit down with people and you just hold space and listen how vulnerable people get I mean, I really remember our conversation and it was so good. And so deep and there's just such. Your specifically your story with the bedsheets was very, those bedsheets meant something very important to you. And so it's just been really great to explore that with other people do so.

Grayson: Nice. So Like, so obviously you take the bedsheets and I've seen some pictures of, of what you do with them, but is the, is the project more about the connection and the stories? More so than the actual, like physical things that come out of it for you?

Duncan: Yes, I believe so. I think the actual pieces, you want to be able to act, to look at the piece and being like, oh Yeah. that's from this story. So I think. Taking the interviews and dramaticized them. And then people putting people in a space with lots of the pieces. I think create more of an experience rather than like trying to illustrate each story. Yeah.

Grayson: Yeah. I definitely will say like I, I do remember our conversation quite, quite well too. And I think I ended up like opening up to you more than most people that I've met that actually don't know my ex and because usually I just, I don't know. Talking about that to new people, because it's like, well, that's my past and I'm looking to my future. And so I think it was very therapeutic and cathartic for me to contribute. To con contribute the, the physical aspect, like the, the duvet cover that we shared for 15 years or whatever. And as well as just like opening up and Like I have a problem with vulnerability just in general. And so like, you definitely created a space where I felt safe to do that. And I think that that's a really powerful thing that you can do just knowing you for, I mean, I think we've only known each other for like a year, but knowing you for the amount of time that I have, like, I, I sense that in you,

Duncan: Oh, man. Thank you, That, that means a lot. I feel like I feel like also that's what I want to do with the stuff that I create. Create like a vulnerable, safe place for people to experience and to, to see and be seen. I love it when, like I go to theater. And there's something that like spark when you see someone like I dunno what it is. Like they're not, it's not the same story that they're, they're not telling my story, but I feel something inside that reminds me of myself. And I feel like those are the moments that you know, the magic moments were like, do you want to talk about and share it with others or are reflect, sorry. I think that's the kind of the power of art that could change people. So, Yeah. I think the dance show that we shot, that kinda definitely. did that for me too. It was just very,

Grayson: Yeah. I'm trying to

Duncan: hard to describe.

Grayson: Yeah, well, and I should have looked up like trying to remember what it was, but basically it was this like the, it was a trans man his first choreographed show where he did all of the choreography. And then he was also the, you know, one of the lead dancers and it was an exploration of gender. And it was extremely moving, like Just

Duncan: Yeah. How have you explored the, his feminine side with, he had a female dancer that he worked with and then a male dancer and exploring this really like athletic like primal side. And it. was just, it was cool to explore those things to do.

Grayson: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it was I think the first time that I've seen a show like that you know, I've seen lots of dance shows, but like something that was quite that like personal and cathartic and like Not, I mean intimate. Yes. But like moving I, I don't think I've ever been moved quite the same way by a dance show, so,

Duncan: yeah, yeah. I would say, yeah, he was pretty vulnerable and transparent.

Grayson: yeah. So with the bedsheet Chronicles, is this are you still like, is it still ongoing? How. So how have you, how have you managed that with, with COVID and like quarantine and all of the, like just the necessary social distancing that's happened.

Duncan: Well, it's, I feel like it's the perfect project for me during quarantine because I made a friend last summer. He opened his wood shop to me, so I go over there and work on projects. And I've, and I have If you look behind me, so I have a closet full of bedsheets. So I'm kind of, I don't need that. I mean, I w I wanted to do more interviews with people and get more bedsheets and hear stories and that kind of stuff, but I have enough materials to keep me going for a long time.

Grayson: Okay.

Duncan: And Yeah. so it's been pretty, relatively easily, and also being an Idaho restrictions can have kind of lifted. And so But it doesn't affect how, I mean, if everything was closed up, I want it to affect me doing this project, which is really nice. I feel like I could go another year with being closed up and being like, Hey, I have, I have projects to keep me busy in a creative avenue to invest my energy into. So that's kind of nice. I do have good news though. I'm a networked with a place in post falls, Idaho to do an exhibit next January.

Grayson: Oh, nice.

Duncan: so I'm super stoked about that to create a created, create an experience, kind of what we talked about, safe, vulnerable space, where part of the, part of the project is going to be multimedia. So. Like voiceover dramaticized one of those interviews. And then I put like video samples together that kind of illustrate what's being explored in the, in the interview on the person's backstory. And so that's gonna be a part of the exhibit people to walk in this space and I experienced it that way. And then also another part of the inspiration. And I know I've talked to you about this is the Celtic tradition of Clootie Wells in Scotland. And so with that, that tradition is an ill person. Someone would take a cloth from a old person and go to these holy Wells that are in Scotland and Ireland. They would dip it in the holy well, make a prayer and then tie it to these Hawthorn trees next to the Wells. And so there's just these trees that are covered in this cool fabric and legend has it as the fabric decays. So the illness to case and the body but it's become. Also tradition to just go to these Wells and make a wish or a prayer and tie the fabric to a tree. So I want to put a metal tree in the center of the exhibit and have people write, what they cover on sheets or fabric, and then they can tie it to the tree.

Grayson: Yeah, that'd be really, that'd be really I think I like the, the bringing people into the, into the experience and making them a part of it as well as an observer. So yeah, I think that's, I think that's really a fascinating take on it. And. Yeah, I was wondering if you were like gonna then let, like take the tree outside and let the fabric rot, or are you, what are you planning to do with the, with

Duncan: Oh, I, I haven't even thought about what I would do with the tree afterwards? I was like, maybe, I don't know. I'd have to talk to, that'd be cool if I just put it outside of a space for a long time. See what happens.

Grayson: Yeah, because it would be kind of interesting to see both the fabric rotting as well as like, if it's, if it's like iron tree then the rust adding to the, adding to the decay kind of like that. I kinda liked that idea.

Duncan: Yeah. That'd be kinda cool to do a series of kind of like artificial decay. I mean, I don't want, I don't want to wait five years for this fabric right away, but if I could find a process to kind of. Make it look like it was decayed six months or a year or two years.

Grayson: Yeah. Yeah. So so that's in January of next year.

Duncan: Yeah,

Grayson: Nice. You'll have to send me information about that so that I can,

Duncan: absolutely. Come see your bedsheets.

Grayson: yeah. Come do a road trip, like yeah.

Duncan: Awesome.

Grayson: Love road trips in Idaho is not that far away from Seattle. So

Duncan: yeah. Yeah. just four and a half hours, which is crazy.

Grayson: like, I drove that to get my first vaccine. I had to drive out to Yakima to get mine.

Duncan: Wow.

Grayson: yeah.

Duncan: Hmm. I was on the short list, so I didn't have to wait too long.

Grayson: Ah, yeah, no, I am perfectly healthy. So I was on the bottom of the list basically. Yeah, so so you've got like a year of bedsheets worth of of project, but I hear you have another project that you're working on. I actually two more, but let's talk about the first one. The one you said you only briefly mentioned that it's something about masculinity, so I'd love to hear kind of a description of that one.

Duncan: Yeah. Yeah. So this is the same bedsheets, but it's kind of like a series. So the last series was called inner beauty. And I've been I've been going into the steam room a lot and I have like, that's where I go into my like flow state or get ideas for things. And I went in the steam room at the beginning of January and just had this epiphany. My mom's upbringing and just this understanding, but I didn't have before of how she was raised and how that's informed who she is and how she parents and how she just moves through the worlds. And so I wrote a story from that and I realized that like, oh my gosh, like these, these pieces represent that all about exploring inner beauty and how, when we are seen By truly seen by someone else. It brings freedom. And we don't, we don't realize our own selves unless someone else tells us kind of when you fall in love and they're like, oh, I love these things about you or LA. And I'm like, oh, I didn't realize that I, I was those things are there. I appreciate those things until someone else appreciated them inside me. And so I don't know, it came from that which has been set. I think the most rewarding art that I could do, like understanding my parents are under same myself or she's, I didn't know if it would be like proud of it or insulted by it because it was pretty me exploring lots of vulnerabilities and in her, but she's blessed by it and she'll like show it to her friends and that's cool. And so I want to do one with my, with my dad about his upbringing and his relationship with his own father. I have a, I have a wonderful relationship with my dad. He's a great, sincere, very humble man T grew up in a very small town outside of lake Stevens in Washington in this lumber town. And just worked a lot small city and just to not have a father that was very affectionate towards him. And like kind of the ideas around what makes us proud, like as men like. To finish, to feel accomplished or to get a task done or like to conquer, I don't know, a weight are a task, a mountain or that, that kind of stuff like exploring those things and how it relates to relationships with dads or our own relationships with being a man. So I like that. Because I feel like so much when you say the word masculinity, people like get super defensive. I be like I think of like this American masculinity, that's super, I don't know, love football, beer, drinking, and Wingstop eating like macho bro dudes. Are they think of, I don't know. Maybe a European masculinity of Like metro-sexual.

Grayson: Bond.

Duncan: yeah. So I just want to touch it on a more sincere basis of, I dunno. Yeah. We'll see where it goes, but.

Grayson: Okay. So it's, it's basically a continuation of the bedsheet Chronicles just from a different viewpoint or a different like focus.

Duncan: Yeah,

Grayson: Okay, nice. So How do you, like, how do you see it being presented differently than the inner beauty version?

Duncan: Yeah. I think that, I think it's still has to do with lights of exposing things within ourselves. So I like that symbol of like the light shining through just, just a lampshade. I L I keep on saying to myself, like, I love lamp, like from anchor man, when he doesn't know what to say, that's just my motto. I just love lamp. But. I think how I looked differently is I want to have a few designs of kind of like a staircase lamp and mug that's in symbols of like rising and achievement and always being after the success in this kind of stuff. And then I have another one where I want to Geometrically make it look like the rays of the sun. And it's, I don't know how I I'm a podcast. Isn't the best for this because I'm like, I don't know how to explain this to someone. You'll have to see it in January. And then lots of use of like nuts and bolts and kind of like more of this raw materials. So I think that's how it's.

Grayson: Okay. So kind of combining both the, the, like the imagery of like the progress in the, and the the light shining through and the, and the organics, like the organic material of the bedsheet with the harder, more like faceted like tools of the trade, I guess. Yeah, I can see that. Like I'm, I'm excited to see that actually. Yeah. Yeah. And then so and, and you're going to be doing that one in January also. So it'll be like combined with both like the inner beauty and masculinity.

Duncan: yeah,

Grayson: And have you talked to your cause, so your mom has seen the inner beauty one and understands like the significance of it for you. Have you talked to your dad about what you're planning for the second one or is it going to be, you're going to get it completed and then tell your dad.

Duncan: I know with the first one, I kind of just like apologize later. No. Yeah, I think I did the interview with him two weeks ago.

Grayson: Okay. Nice. So awesome. And then you've got one more thing kind of on that. That's in the works. And it's a it's a cabaret. Yeah. So why don't you tell us about that?

Duncan: Yeah. I I'm super excited about this. I I moved back to my parents' place at the start of COVID and somebody else from New York moved back. And we were, we'd been planning to like move in together and all that jazz. And during the summer, Somebody asked us to do some Cedar siding for the garage. And this woman over lunches, she would buy us lunch in between. I was putting up beside her fencing and be like, how can I help you? In what you're doing in arts, like, is there anything of my resources that I can give to you in order to make what you want to do happen? And I'm like, what? And she owns a fine art gallery downtown Coeur d'Alene in Idaho. And she just offered up the space to me to do anything that I want to do in it, in the off hours. And so this is. Drawn together arts, which is doing performance art at the intersection of fine art. So what I, I think the most fulfilling work that I got to do when I was in Seattle, was doing a cabaret with two other friends where we just got complete artistic control and we got to sing the songs that we wouldn't normally be able to sing. And create our own characters and like handle the lights and the set and the costume, like being a part of that process, which was so much work, but so gratifying. Just to be rewarding. Some like how can I create that here? We want to do concepts that kind of intersect fine art in some way. So a cabaret, like an example would be a cabaret around the idea of the muse or the idea of perception, like how, when you look at something like an abstract painting, someone else's gonna see something different than the artists or the gallerist or another person looking at it. So exploring those ideas through. Musical and jazz and that sort of stuff. So that that'll be starting fingers crossed this fall call in September. And then, so the idea would be to quarterly produce a show. Two of those would be experimental cabarets and the other two would be plays that talk about art themes. Yeah. I'm excited about that.

Grayson: I'm curious. You said that like when you were in Seattle, you did one with two of your friends and that you could sing songs that you're not normally allowed to sing. What kind of songs are you not normally allowed to sing in theater?

Duncan: I guess that like normally when it get to sing like songs that you're been working on, that it wasn't like we were doing it like. I dunno, risque weird songs, although I love those. I want to do those. But it was just like songs that we really like to sing. And if you're doing a show you're allowed to do what's in the show, so,

Grayson: That's fair. That's fair. So one question that I, that I have, like, I've never been to Coeur d'Alene. I've only been to mountain home the air force base that's in Idaho. So

Duncan: oh, well I don't, I don't know what that is.

Grayson: the limit of my, of my my Idaho experience. But what is it. Like, what is it like producing art in Idaho? Like I, cause I just don't, I don't know enough about it to really feel it informed.

Duncan: so are you talking about in like, like culturally, what is it be appropriate to present in Idaho?

Grayson: Well, so more like okay. This

Duncan: I was like, is. this a, is this a roundabout question? Are you trying to ask me for that?

Grayson: Well, no. Okay. So like, like I have conceived notions about like middle America, right? Like I live on the coast. I've always lived on the coast or a coast. And so I just assume that like middle America is like, Closed to queer people just in general. That's my, you know, my experience has been like when I, when I am away from the coast, I don't feel as comfortable. And so I'm just wondering, like, what is it like for you to Like, cause I know you grew up there. So obviously you have a lot of kind of background on, on how to deal with people there. And just like, how does it affect what you create and how you create

Duncan: Oh, man, this is a,

Grayson: and the, and this'll be like the last question,

Duncan: Yeah. I feel like, yeah. How much time do you have? I think, I would say it was very difficult coming back. Cause I grew up here, but I spent time away and it was almost like culture shock coming back to just a very maybe close minded. But it just seemed heightened because of what was happening, political that. Things that I see are war aware of came out of the woodwork. And I was like, oh, I didn't, I didn't remember seeing this when I lived here. And so, it was, it took, it took four or five months of being kind of hitting a wall of being, like being judgmental of people and kind of putting people in boxes and putting myself in a box. I th I think that that. Process just is not good. Are healthy for both parties. So I realized that I was also a lot of, a lot of faults because I wasn't holding space for other people and their experience. So I think the people I surround myself with, even if it's like people that don't agree with the things that I agree with. There are people that can hold space for me and I can hold space for them. And so that being, that being said, when I came back, I felt a damper on my art creating because I felt kind of reacting against instead of being inspired by. And I don't think that's, I would argue that reacting against isn't always the best place. Make things out of,

Grayson: Yeah. I mean, I certainly think that there's, there's a place for rebelling through creation. But I don't necessarily find that that's the most rewarding way to create personally. So I, yeah. Yeah.

Duncan: Yeah. I love rebelling. I love like challenging the process and shaking people up, but I want to be inspired by that rather than I have to like force something on someone, you know?

Grayson: Yeah, no, that totally makes sense.

Duncan: so I, I feel really inspired by challenging people. I, I kind of like that. The subversion of cabaret are like burlesque where you can hold people's attention and then slip something in there that they didn't expect or causes them to look at life a little differently. And so I also like that, maybe it's an audience that I have to be a little bit more. Like tentative with because I think that's when that's where you're going to produce something good. Like if you sideswipe someone with a deep thought are with them, how a queer person really is that they didn't, they've never experienced before. That would be your target audience. It shouldn't be like all the people that are always on your side that are always going to support you. So I'm kind of. I'm excited to ride that line of how do I still keep people engaged, but still shake them up with cabaret.

Grayson: Yeah. And I think that's a, I think that's a great place to, to end on cause I think that's a, that's a great sentiment. You know, I think great art challenges. And it sounds like you're making great art, so I'm excited. I'm excited to come and witness it. So it

Duncan: Would love to have. Yeah.

Grayson: yeah, definitely keep me in the loop because I will, I will drive out. I love car trips and road trips. And so yeah.

Duncan: Yeah. Show you some hikes.

Grayson: Yeah, I love hiking too. So, so that's perfect. Yeah. So I just wanted to thank you for your time and give you an opportunity to let everyone know where they can find you online. Either the bedsheet Chronicles or the drawn together art cabaret. If you have any information that you'd like to share,

Duncan: Great. Yeah. Thank you. On Instagram you can follow the bedsheet chronicles @BS_Chronicles and on Facebook, it's [https://www.facebook.com/BSChronicle](the bedsheet chronicles). And for drawn together, arts, you can follow the art spirit gallery on Facebook. Are they have a website also.

Grayson: Nice. And I'll put links to all of that in the show notes. So you can find that at https://gaysmaking.com/103. And yeah. I just wanted to thank you again for your time. This was a fantastic conversation and it's always good to see you. And I will definitely see you in the future.

Duncan: you. Yeah. it's been a pleasure. And thanks for the good questions. Make me think about these things from different angles. And I love it. All right. Well

Grayson: this has been Gays Making. I am. I am Grayson Hay, and I will see you next time. Bye.